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#41
Ithri

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And where is this mufti from? I guess somewhere in the middle-east... He thinks all the family names in the whole world are like what they have there (refering to the father name) which is NOT the case everywhere (in NA for example). So he couldn't say it's haram for us!!!!
The woman changing her family name to use her husband's is not haram in our case as this change doesn't imply anything on who her father/mother is.
This is clear to me on the religious side.

Then on a social side, it is not important whether she does or not. If a woman feels like Bent that her husband did nothing to deserve that his name is taken by his wife then don't take it. And like Chansky said above, the man could use his wife's family name... no pb with that either... or they can keep each their own or use combinations, or choose a new name for the newborn family :D

As to your last question Chaouia, Fatony already answered it but I'd like to add that many converts are advised to change their names (sometimes just first name and other times the full name) for two reasons:
- When they are in a muslim country, it helps a lot if they're men and they want to marry a Muslim born woman. It helps administratively that is.
- In all cases for Hajj. entering Mekka is forbidden to non-Muslims and sometimes the authorities of this country use the name on the passport to decide of which religion you are. And if the name is say European and u're a European/American citizen then u'd need papers etc. to prove u're Muslim...

But all in all, like in Fatony's answer it is not mandatory not preferred (even if some say so). It's up to the person who sometimes feels they need a new name for a new beginning!
Un homme se leva et demanda permission d'appeler les fidèles à la prière.
Permission lui fût donnée:
- Vous pouvez les appeler, tant que vous les appelez à Dieu et non à vous-même.
- Mais comment saurais-je la différence?
- Si ça vous dérange que quelqu'un d'autre les appelle à Dieu, c'est que vous les appelez à vous-même.

#42
^_^Chaouia^_^

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ok well all i get is that the schoolars are saying its haram, but nothing in the quraan about it being haram
i like some surahs, or hadiths that say women back in the profits time, peace be upon him, used to use their hubbys name, please smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
TamattuT nnegh machi ghir i waghrom
Tattali zang u yis wa Traffed' agastur."
The shawi woman isn't just for house work
She rides the horse and carries a sword.

#43
Ithri

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Chaouia back in the times (and till now in some arab countries) the ppl were called X son of Y, or X daughter of Y
Meaning they had no family names as we know them in DZ but just adding an information in their name on who their father was.
And the only Aya in Quran which talks about that is the one about adoption where it says clearly we shouldn't say X son of Y when Y only adopted X and is not their real father.

Other than that there is nothing. And back in the time the woman didn't take the family name of her husband, coz her husband had none (it was his father's name) and because she was called as referred to her father by X daughter of Y.

#44
^_^Chaouia^_^

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yes i know but these women want something to prove its not haram, and they want where are these stories that those women did take on their husbands names thats all :(

#45
♥JaNNaH♥

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You know in Wales, Ireland, Scotland, we never used to have surnames, we would be bob son of builder, joan daughter of bob the builder etc. Surnames were forced on us by the english!

So if they had no surnames in the middle east and no surnames here at the time of Muhammed PBUH then how is it forbidden and this haram thing, people pass this around for things which aren't harem, just advised.

However as most new muslims are told, things need to be proven, you don't just accept someone's word, because this has caused us many problems in the past!
Truly, to Allaah we belong and truly, to Him we shall return

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#46
♥JaNNaH♥

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Check this out! ;)

http://www.islamonli...d=1119503544198


http://muslimconvert...names/index.htm

I have my husband's name but I do not have and never had and never inshallah will have the affixed daughter of and my father's FULL name attached, I am quite happy to introduce myself this way, just not have it as a name!

An interesting little thread I found on that topic

http://muslimvillage...?...=40042&st=0

#47
♥JaNNaH♥

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http://answers.yahoo...28233155AAqvH12

http://www.askimam.o...a3ab59826896580

I have found so far two fatwa that say it is NOT haram. Why people get haram and recomended mixed up makes things confusing. Plus I was told to follow the Quran and sunnah, yet we have all these men deciding what we should and shouldn't do and often having different opinions that is also confusing!

#48
bentAljazair

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Jannah
I cannot say if its haram or not. I think you are free, but the question is why would you do so?

If a woman feels like Bent that her husband did nothing to deserve that his name is taken by his wife then don't take it. And like Chansky said above, the man could use his wife's family name... no pb with that either... or they can keep each their own or use combinations, or choose a new name for the newborn family

I do not like this sarcastic tone Ithri. I am serious. Whatever good a man can do to his wife, it does not deserve giving up her name for his. Nonsense!
I know a lady who did took the name of her husband as all good wives are supposed to do here. Well at the end it did not work well with her husband and they divorced. The divorce was not a friendly one. Her husband became her worst enemy. Anyway, all her papers were in the name of Madame her husband. We all used to call her by this name. Her husband deprived her from everything, even her identity.
She has to change all her papers. It took her months and a lot of pain to recover her real identity.

My family name is my identity, the name of my father is my roots. It is written in my blood and DNA.
When a woman marry her husband name would be written only on a piece of paper, that any event can torn or burn for ever...

salam
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#49
SIDALI

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Jannah
I cannot say if its haram or not. I think you are free, but the question is why would you do so?

I do not like this sarcastic tone Ithri. I am serious. Whatever good a man can do to his wife, it does not deserve giving up her name for his. Nonsense!
I know a lady who did took the name of her husband as all good wives are supposed to do here. Well at the end it did not work well with her husband and they divorced. The divorce was not a friendly one. Her husband became her worst enemy. Anyway, all her papers were in the name of Madame her husband. We all used to call her by this name. Her husband deprived her from everything, even her identity.
She has to change all her papers. It took her months and a lot of pain to recover her real identity.

My family name is my identity, the name of my father is my roots. It is written in my blood and DNA.
When a woman marry her husband name would be written only on a piece of paper, that any event can torn or burn for ever...

salam


something doesn't sound right to me here sister, how can you consider ur father's name ur root if u are saying that his name doesn't deserve to be a family name, if that man who is ur father can do whatever to the family but can't be accepted as name of the family why u r taking it as ur name.
I'm not saying that the family name should be taken from the father's or the mother's as I'm the ennemy of the fiminism or any kind of sexysm, but the truth is that it should be an agreement in the couple to choose one of the names or both or pick a new one if they can, The only goal is to make u guys understand that not all the males are guilty for the female's situation now, if there is a law that we found it already when we were born we can't be blammed for it, is very wrong to say that all men are the reason for the world sadness even if the sadness of the world is brought by only men.

#50
bentAljazair

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salam brother chansky
Let me better explain you my point. I am Muslima I agree that the family is called after the name of the father and all the children take the name of their father. But I prefer the wife keep the name of her own father and not take the one of her husband.
That is all.
PS: I am not a feminist. I hate Elhogra… and of course all men are not bad…but it would be great if you try walking in our shoes… from time to time.
salam brother

#51
♥JaNNaH♥

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Bentaljazair I am already married and already explained somwhere that have already taken my husbands name, I didn't know if it was haram or not, I wasn't even muslim at the time and is usual in my country to do this, and there were various other reasons I did it. My father has no problem and doesn't feel I'm no longer his daughter, no one is confused who's family I belong to. Not everyone gets divorced and it's simple to change the name, can cost £10 deedpoll

I was posting this stuff to help chaouia, not to discuss the matter

#52
♥JaNNaH♥

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It's a song title isn't it? I don't wanna talk about it....

Anyway from what I read, which was what I was trying to find, it is not haram, that's all I wanted to know

#53
Fatony

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Another similar question what Sheikh Munajid (may Allah protect him) answered:

Question:
I have read your responses to the following questions 2537 and 4362 concerning a wife retaining her father's name upon marriage. The Ayaat mentioned from Surah Al-Ahzaab states that adopted sons (and hence daughters?) should not be called as sons of the step-fathers. However, how exactly does this apply to a wife simply changing her name for marriage; as she is not actually claiming to belong to her husband, but just taking his name. If it is a question of lineage, I would appreciate specific references from the Qur'an and hadith.
Thank you for your help and clarification.
Jazak'Allah Khayr.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

The effects of imitating the west in naming ourselves are many. One of them is the way in which people have got used to omitting the word ‘ibn’ (son of) or ‘ibnatu’ (daughter of) between their own names and the name of their fathers. The reason for this is, firstly, because some families have adopted children and given them their surname, so that the adopted child is called Foolaan Foolan [where ‘Foolaan (=So and so)’ stands for a name]and their real children are called Foolaan ibn Foolaan (So and so the son of So and so). Now in the fourteenth century AH, people have dropped the word ‘ibn’ or ‘ibnatu’ – which is unacceptable according to linguistics, custom and sharee’ah. May Allaah help us.

Another effect is the habit of women taking their husband’s surnames.

Originally, the woman is So and so the Daughter of So and so, not So and so the wife of So and so! Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Call them (adopted sons) by (the names of) their fathers, that is more just with Allaah…” [al-Ahzaab 33:5].

As it is in this world, so it will also be in the Hereafter, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“On the Day of Resurrection, each betrayer will have a banner raised beside him, and it will be said, this is the betrayer of So and so the son of So and so.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5709, and Muslim, 3265).

Shaykh Bakr Abu Zayd (may Allaah preserve him) said: This is one of the beauties of sharee’ah, because calling a person by his father’s name is more appropriate for knowing who is who and telling people apart. The father is the protector and maintainer of the child and his mother both inside and outside the home. This is why the father mixes with people in the marketplaces and takes risks by travelling to earn a halaal living and strive for their sakes. So the child is given the name of the father, not of the mother who is hidden away and who is one of those whom Allaah commanded (interpretation of the meaning):

“And stay in your houses…” [al-Ahzaab 33:33]

(Tasmiyat al-Mawlood, 30, 31).

On the basis of the above, there is no blood tie between the husband and wife, so how can she take his surname as if she is part of the same lineage? Moreover, she may get divorced, or her husband may die, and she may marry another man. Will she keep changing her surname every time she marries another man? Furthermore, there are rulings attached to her being named after her father, which have to do with inheritance, spending and who is a mahram, etc. Taking her husband’s surname overlooks all that. The husband is named after his own father, and what does she have to do with the lineage of her husband’s father? This goes against common sense and true facts. The husband has nothing that makes him better than his wife so that she should take his surname, whilst he takes his father’s name.

Hence everyone who has gone against this and taken her husband’s name should put matters right. We ask Allaah to put all the affairs of the Muslims right.


My wife has the right to do what she wants, if she wants to take my name or keep hers.
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#54
♥JaNNaH♥

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Thought of something earlier, when my brother and me were little, there was a period my dad didn't work and my mum worked really hard doing whatever job she could to take care of us and buy the best she could for us, so no dis-respect to my dad but my mum equally supported and took care of us, if not more so.

Also not saying my husband is an angel but when I was sick he took care of me, he covered me in ice when I had a fever, he made sure I got to hospital when I needed to, he's gone out shopping for me, if I say I am craving something he'll bring it for me, he is not a nothing!

#55
Ithri

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I do not like this sarcastic tone Ithri. I am serious. Whatever good a man can do to his wife, it does not deserve giving up her name for his. Nonsense!


There was no sarcasm in the paragraph you quoted, it was all serious!
This last name thing was imposed to us by the French in the late 19th century and is a western tradition (so is the tradition of the woman taking her husband's name) so it really is not important. I say it again if you feel your husband doesn't deserve to have his name used by you then don't do it, and if both of you (you in general) want to use a new name, a combination or whatever then I believe it is fine.
And I agree with you about the hassle one faces in bureaucratic countries if they want to change their name so like you say if they go through it after marriage then again after divorce then better forget the whole thing.

Now on a side note, I felt from your writing that you thinking divorce when you say marriage and think first of the possibility that it wouldn't work before thinking it could work... This is no personal, I could say the same from what I read on another thread where girls thought first that "the husband could prevent the woman from studying after they marry" before they thought "the husband could support his wife in her studies and even professional career after marriage)...
It is not so good to be so negative, although I know reality is not very nice.

#56
Fatony

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mate I totally agree with your last paragraph Ithri.

When I speak with women about marriage, I feel I am accused of a crime which I haven't commited yet. I have to defend myself before I say I do. I have seen it in many women and I am getting sick of it. I say alhamdulilah that I look at marriage positively rather than negatively. You know, this quality is unfortunately found in western women and not much in our muslim women these days.

I guess they are right when they say: Wesh Kharrej la3rousa men dar babaha. It could be interpreted either way

#57
YazzyCherry

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Hey this was on Canal Algerie just today subhanallah lol
the 'avis religeux' show or whatever its called
they discussed both the adopted child name change and the wife name change
its actually a sunnah for the wife to keep her fathers name actually and yes they quoted the same verse from the Quran as above about renaming your adoptive children as it would deceive and disroot them
canal algerie are psychic
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#58
playboisoldier

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canal algerie are psychic


there not lol, they were reading it on here... thought it was a good subject and aired it !! :o

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#59
Beebo

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of course we're a famous forum now.. most of our topics are aired world wide.. most journalists come on out site to check on topics they can write about or base their talk show on :D

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