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Benbitour's Project To Save The Algerian Nation

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#1
Ithri

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As promised, former prime minister Ahmed Benbitour has finally released his project.
His method is : 1-Discuss and decide what Algeria we want, 2-Discuss and decide how to reach the defined goal.
The fact all is built up after discussion should guarantee that everybody will work in the same direction with the required dedication/motivation.
He said he'll come back in a few weeks with his own ideas to start with as a ground for discussion.

Good luck to him.

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#2
writersfreedom

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it takes more than just one person to '' save the nation'' .
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#3
Fatony

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Nelson managed just fine :D
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#4
bentAljazair

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As promised, former prime minister Ahmed Benbitour has finally released his project.
His method is : 1-Discuss and decide what Algeria we want, 2-Discuss and decide how to reach the defined goal.
The fact all is built up after discussion should guarantee that everybody will work in the same direction with the required dedication/motivation.
He said he'll come back in a few weeks with his own ideas to start with as a ground for discussion.

Good luck to him.

http://www.cicc-dz.net/index1.html


A project to save the nation wow .... I guess he needs more than good luck

Nelson managed just fine :D


you mean Nelson Mandela? .....what a comparison

I took time to search the CV of Mr Benbitour and find this

Fonctions politiques, parlementaires et ministrielles :

  • 1975-1979 : Professeur l'Institut national de la planification et des statistiques (INPS, Alger) puis professeur l'Institut national de la productivit et du dveloppement industriel (INPED, Boumerdes).
  • 1991-1992 : Charg de mission la Prsidence de la Rpublique.
  • 1992-1993 : Ministre dlgu au trsor.
  • 1993-1994 : Ministre de l'nergie.
  • 1994-1996 : Ministre des Finances.
  • 1998-1999 : Snateur au Conseil de la Nation.
  • 23 dcembre 1999 : Chef du Gouvernement.
  • 26 aot 2000 : il dmissionne.
  • Il est l'un des artisans des accords avec le Fonds Montaire International (FMI), le Club de Paris et le Club de Londres.
  • Il a notamment publi l'exprience algrienne de dveloppement : 1962-1991 , L'Algrie au 3me millnaire et Dfis et potentialits .


Hmm Benbitour was Minsiter during the 90s and in the Ouyahia government in 1995. He didn't resign then. He was also consultant for the world bank and the IMF.

Hard to propose a credible change when you are one of the old world we want to get rid of...

There is another call for change here but this one you wont find it on newspapers ...

Long time ago in Aljazair ... in years of dark ignorance... one man started something ... he didn't write a manifesto a strategy to defeat darkness nor did he gather people around questions of revolutionary change... he did one thing ... he started teaching the youth the change he wanted to happen...that man was named Ibn Badis...years later a new generation blossomed from nowhere, who did know exactly what is the change they needed then.

If you want change... be it ... then teach it to the new generation... that 's it.

Some people want to harvest change without sowing the seeds ....
we are still at the stage of "sowing the seeds of change"
... patience...patience...
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#5
Ithri

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it takes more than just one person to '' save the nation'' .

If you had taken the time to read my post or the articles in the link you'd have understood that he wants to discuss (with ppl, not alone), decide (with ppl, not alone) and then act (with ppl, not alone).

A project to save the nation wow .... I guess he needs more than good luck

I used the "good luck" expression to show that I am skeptical and not convinced about it. Not because of Benbitour but because of the people who will be with him.

Hmm Benbitour was Minsiter during the 90s and in the Ouyahia government in 1995. He didn't resign then. He was also consultant for the world bank and the IMF.

I know what you mean. It also rebuts me when something comes from people who were part of the system. But as much as I wouldn't believe a word from some former prime ministers such as Abdelhamid Brahimi who does nothing but criticize while living in London/Morocco; or Sid-Ahmed Ghozali whose actions I know when he was CEO of Sonatrach and then when he was a minister then prime minister or an ambassador.
But I can't remember of anything really bad of when Benbitour was a minister. Sure one can say he didn't do any thing noticeable back then. But one could answer he was doing his job as a minister obeying to the prime minister. But when he became prime minister and saw that he couldn't apply his own ideas and was forced against his will by Bouteflika then he resigned!
And right after he resigned he criticized but promised to come up with a project, which he did.

I'll give you another example from another period. When the FLN launched the war, people from the PCA, the UDMA and the Ulemas were either neutral or against.
But in 1956, Abbane and Ben Mhidi decided to appoint former leaders of the PCA and UDMA in the FLN and include them in the independence project. Ben Bella was against it. But I believe it was a good step. They didn't say hey they were against us why work with them now... Adding men such as Ferhat Abbas was definitely a good decision.

Hard to propose a credible change when you are one of the old world we want to get rid of...

A rhetorical question: Why did you then believe Bouteflika and voted for him a third time despite him being in and from the old world you want to get rid of?

There is another call for change here but this one you wont find it on newspapers ...

That's not true, all important DZ newspapers talked about this call when it was released last March.
I must say I don't agree with the people behind this for so many reasons: their call to denounce the Algerian regime internationally, their call for the Army to force the change and stay in power for 2 years, the fact they think only politics and that's all they cared of, the fact I saw Zitout in the members list.

I am actually surprised that you display this call implying it's good!
I am surprised even more because I indirectly mentioned these people in my "Carnaval fi Dechra" thread because a number of them were behind the boycott-dz website. How come you were against them back then and now you face Benbitour's project with this one implying you believe in it?!

Long time ago in Aljazair ... in years of dark ignorance... one man started something ... he didn't write a manifesto a strategy to defeat darkness nor did he gather people around questions of revolutionary change... he did one thing ... he started teaching the youth the change he wanted to happen...that man was named Ibn Badis...years later a new generation blossomed from nowhere, who did know exactly what is the change they needed then.

I think I said it once, I believe we need another islahist movement. But the French say "comparaison n'est pas raison" and the saying applies in this very case. The situation is different, time is different, the world is different.

#6
bentAljazair

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...But I can't remember of anything really bad of when Benbitour was a minister. Sure one can say he didn't do any thing noticeable back then. But one could answer he was doing his job as a minister obeying to the prime minister. But when he became prime minister and saw that he couldn't apply his own ideas and was forced against his will by Bouteflika then he resigned!
And right after he resigned he criticized but promised to come up with a project, which he did.

You don't remember of anything bad when Benbitour was minister....???..Wallah I would have laughed... if it was not so sad....

I don't know Benbitour personally, but for me it is enough to know that he held office in the Dz government in the 90s. During all the 90s he was, dutifully, "doing his job as a minister obeying to the prime minister". He did not resign then, everything was OK for him then. He didn't want THE change to happen then. No, he carried on working as a good minsiter without asking questions, while 1000s of Algerians were being killed days and nights in the most atrocious way.
I believe that during that period people who kept holding important positions in the governement or national institutions were either numbs, who didn't understand anything to the prevailing situation back then, or cowards , who did understand what was happening but didn't dare to say anything or to ask for change then, they kept quiet in fear, or vaultors, who did understand everything, but it was ok for their interests and carriere. Benbitour is surely one of these, either one makes him unfit to ask for change. That is why for me, He is not credible as a potential leader for CHANGE.

A rhetorical question: Why did you then believe Bouteflika and voted for him a third time despite him being in and from the old world you want to get rid of?

I guess you know it well, the old world I want to get rid of is the world of the 90s with all its polititians, militaries and journalists...
Yes Bouteflika belongs to an old world outdated and oldfashioned, but a world I respect. His political journey started in the 50s well before he became president. And, honestly, what matters to me is that during the 90s he held no position in the government, or any other national institution .... he has no blood on his hands...

That's not true, all important DZ newspapers talked about this call when it was released last March.
I must say I don't agree with the people behind this for so many reasons: their call to denounce the Algerian regime internationally, their call for the Army to force the change and stay in power for 2 years, the fact they think only politics and that's all they cared of, the fact I saw Zitout in the members list.

I am actually surprised that you display this call implying it's good!
I am surprised even more because I indirectly mentioned these people in my "Carnaval fi Dechra" thread because a number of them were behind the boycott-dz website. How come you were against them back then and now you face Benbitour's project with this one implying you believe in it?!

Really, I must have missed it. Please do post links of such articles I am curious to know what was our free journalist's opinion about it.
Ya ITHRI when I believe somthing is good I say it! I do not imply it. I talked about that call because it is a call for a peaceful change the same as the one of Benbitour and I thought we could have a fruitful discussion about these two propositions. Evaluate them or compare them, but you got surprised and get it all wrong. You didn't understand the last part of my previous message apparently.

I think I said it once, I believe we need another islahist movement. But the French say "comparaison n'est pas raison" and the saying applies in this very case. The situation is different, time is different, the world is different.

No, it is not a mere comparaison it is a divine law sounat Allah fi khalqeeh. I thought a lot about this change we all yearn for. Read a lot and .... there is this divine law that is ruling everything in this world:
Whatever crop you want to harvest you first have to choose the right dirt and the right season, sowe the right seeds, water it, wait ... be patient and rely on Allah. You sow seeds of knowledge, love and respect you harvest a yield of civilisation, loyalty and dedication. You sow seeds of ignorance, pain and humiliation you harvest crop of vice, violence and vengeance. That's it.

The friends of Salah eddine sidhoum are not realistic. They want a radical yet peaceful change and they want it now. if you want a peaceful radical change you have to wait for the right time and the right generation. If you want radical change now you can only rely on the seeds sowed in the 90s tragedy. These seeds, I am afraid, cannot yield a peaceful change. What kind of crop, seeds of pain and fear, anger and hate, can yield? If those seeds blossom....there would be enough fire to burn Algeria 100 times...If only they take some time to think about it ...

For sure everybody wants to be in the time of harvesting. No one wants to be in time of sowing. Because, in life, those who do the sowing will not live longer to witness the crop when it blossoms. They know they are doing it for the next generation. And yes it demands a strong sense of sacrifice.
Didn't we harvest the crop of freedom and independance sowed by our forebears? ... Many died before tasting freedom. Now it is our turn to do our share sowing the seeds of democracy, knowledge and civilisation.... carefuly, patiently. Spread elklaima ettayiba everywhere and anywhere at schools, universities, in mosques, cafe, books and newspapers, in blogs and forums...wa tawakal 3ala Allah.

Besides, when you, peacefuly, defencelessly, do the sowing.... you fear neither the Nazgul of Sorons nor the evil soldiers of Darth Vador smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Waessalam

#7
writersfreedom

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If you had taken the time to read my post or the articles in the link you'd have understood that he wants to discuss (with ppl, not alone), decide (with ppl, not alone) and then act (with ppl, not alone).


and I suppose u were sitting right next to me when I was reading this so that u would know wut I have and havent taken time to do ?!

and I still stand by my post , just cuz u didnt get it doesnt mean I dnt know wut am talking abt Thank u very much!

#8
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well u know at least someone is "trying"to think about the future of algeria...right? about time u know morocco n tunis r getting ahead of us!
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#9
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I don't know Benbitour personally, but for me it is enough to know that he held office in the Dz government in the 90s. During all the 90s he was, dutifully, "doing his job as a minister obeying to the prime minister". He did not resign then, everything was OK for him then. He didn't want THE change to happen then. No, he carried on working as a good minsiter without asking questions, while 1000s of Algerians were being killed days and nights in the most atrocious way.
I believe that during that period people who kept holding important positions in the governement or national institutions were either numbs, who didn't understand anything to the prevailing situation back then, or cowards , who did understand what was happening but didn't dare to say anything or to ask for change then, they kept quiet in fear, or vaultors, who did understand everything, but it was ok for their interests and carriere. Benbitour is surely one of these, either one makes him unfit to ask for change. That is why for me, He is not credible as a potential leader for CHANGE.


Ok I totally agree with bentAljazair, if you notice the positions he was in charge of during the dark decade, you'd see that it was Treasury, Energy and Finance. We also know that during that decade, billions of dollars were taken and stolen and suddenly vanished. Of course we all know the many books which were written about the money transfers which were done during those years and deposited into "anonymous" Swiss accounts. From 92 - 96 is where the real problems took place be it humanitarian, political, social, and financial. Him holding such important positions and not backing off is just too fishy.. then all of a sudden becomes the Prime Minister and resigns due to "personal" issues.

2000 . ɡ


so basically in 2000 it was corrupt, but not from 92 - 96

Plus, we've talked about "change" in algeria and the change will not happen with people in government being corrupt.. Boutefilka keeps changing ministers because elli yi7oto yisraq.... he didn't leave out ANYONE, they're all thieves... even Hims members turned out to be thieves... za3ma yisalllo (for whatever reason, Algerians make a big deal about people praying, which I find pretty sad and downgrading) and with students in Universities where la greve takes place every 2 months and professors don't attend classes because they have 2nd jobs, how do we expect to have "ideal candidates" who are qualified for these positions (I'm not even sure if the terms ideal and qualified still apply in Algeria or not, I highly doubt it).

Ok maybe he's taking initiative, but everything he's suggesting has been said by EVERY Algerian before him.... we all say it and we all ask the same question.. who are these people that he's talking about when he says we need people to work day and night to help the country thrive and perform their duties within the government? isn't that what everyone asks?? we haven't had a straight answer since Chadli took charge.

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#10
Ithri

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and I suppose u were sitting right next to me when I was reading this so that u would know wut I have and havent taken time to do ?!

and I still stand by my post , just cuz u didnt get it doesnt mean I dnt know wut am talking abt Thank u very much!

Obviously... Responding to a whole projet by one line... I can't get it. But if you wanna elaborate I'd be willing to read and respond accordingly smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

well u know at least someone is "trying"to think about the future of algeria...right? about time u know morocco n tunis r getting ahead of us!

La ahead of us la sidi zekri... ghir el heff.

Ok I totally agree with bentAljazair, if you notice the positions he was in charge of during the dark decade, you'd see that it was Treasury, Energy and Finance. We also know that during that decade, billions of dollars were taken and stolen and suddenly vanished. Of course we all know the many books which were written about the money transfers which were done during those years and deposited into "anonymous" Swiss accounts.

Ya Beebo who is this "we" who know that billions of dollars were taken and stolen?
Our only revenues come from oil and the 1990 to 2001 was one of the worst periods with barrel price below $15. We were almost facing madja3a and had reserves worth 3 month only of wheat!!!
I am not saying there were no moneys robbed but I am guessing they were much less than what's happening these years with oil prices above $60/barrel and so many foreign investors and big projects. Just think of the news we hear lately about the east/west highway...

My point is you cannot say there was a peak of illegal money transfer during that period, unless you have some evidence to share with us.

then all of a sudden becomes the Prime Minister and resigns due to "personal" issues.

not all of a sudden! we got a new president (bouteflika) who appointed him as PM! Then he resigned and you know in DZ (and elsewhere) any sensitive reason becomes a "personal" issue in official messages so it is meaningless here.

so basically in 2000 it was corrupt, but not from 92 - 96

Who said that? He didn't as far as I know.

Plus, we've talked about "change" in algeria and the change will not happen with people in government being corrupt.. Boutefilka keeps changing ministers because elli yi7oto yisraq.... he didn't leave out ANYONE, they're all thieves...

Wow Beebo are we talking about the same Algeria?? What ministers Bouteflika did change???
prime ministers: Benbitour resigned, Benflis resigned after coup attempt from one part of the FLN then it's always been Ouyahia/Belkhadem.
regular ministers: only a few changed and when they changed most of the time it's because their parties (FLN, RND or MSP) wanted to replace them by others from the same party so nobody's jealous....
His real friends (Temmar, Benachenhou, Zerhouni, Benbouzid, etc.) have always been there and are staying, pourtant they all 3mawha at one point or another...
So I am sorry to say your argument is the worst I heard!

za3ma yisalllo

We are in the Arab world and ministers and all men in power pray all laylat elqadr and the two Eids. We can't tell for the rest unless you know them personally.

#11
Ithri

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BentAljazair, like I said I don't like it either when people from the system come with a change project but I know things are complex and I always listen to what they have to say... Nobody knows the situation he was in back then and whether he tried or not to do things differently, whether he asked questions or not...
El mouhim, it's fair enough that you reject anyone who's from the system... It's your opinion and I won't discuss it.

It just goes beyond my understanding that you don't have the same opinion when it comes to Bouteflika. Ok I agree he was away and came back only in 1999.
Let me tell you this, I supported him back then and I even supported him for his second mandate. But now it's been almost 10 years so khlass you can't say he's new... and during these 10 years, do you think he worked with new men he brought with him? No. He's working with the same exact men you say their hands are full of blood. He even freed some men with real blood on their hands and gave them money and now have businesses everywhere in DZ.

Really, I must have missed it. Please do post links of such articles I am curious to know what was our free journalist's opinion about it.
Ya ITHRI when I believe somthing is good I say it! I do not imply it. I talked about that call because it is a call for a peaceful change the same as the one of Benbitour and I thought we could have a fruitful discussion about these two propositions. Evaluate them or compare them, but you got surprised and get it all wrong. You didn't understand the last part of my previous message apparently.

If I got it wrong it's because your sentence "here's another call but the press doesn't talk of it"... The "but" part gave it another connotation.
Anyways, I think I gave my opinion about it and despite its outside peaceful look, when I see the army in power i cannot believe it...

No, it is not a mere comparaison it is a divine law sounat Allah fi khalqeeh. I thought a lot about this change we all yearn for. Read a lot and .... there is this divine law that is ruling everything in this world:
Whatever crop you want to harvest you first have to choose the right dirt and the right season, sowe the right seeds, water it, wait ... be patient and rely on Allah. You sow seeds of knowledge, love and respect you harvest a yield of civilisation, loyalty and dedication. You sow seeds of ignorance, pain and humiliation you harvest crop of vice, violence and vengeance. That's it.

I agree with this. Again your sentence was like you were comparing the two men, hence my comment.