Jump to content

Change
Photo

Algeria, Arab or not Arab?

* * * * * 1 votes

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#21
wad

wad
  • Members
  • 67 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Algeria (Tipaza)

Current mood: Balanced
Hello!

"la far9a bayna 3arabiyin wa la a3djamiyin... illa bita9wa!"said the Prophet (PBUH). Islam eradicates these kinds of debates once and for all. Once you're a muslim, you no longer belong to any tribe or anything of the sort. You're simply a simply a Muslim. You shouldn't stand against fellow muslims just because they are not from your region, and vice versa. Didn't the Prophet (PBUH) say that we're like one body( Meaning of the Hadith)? and if any part of that body gets hurt, the rest of the parts would get perturbed and worried about it? That what Islam does ; it brings togather all sorts of people from different backgrounds. Talking about origins leads us no where! You 're not really a berber, we're not really Arabs. If we trace our origin back, we'll find that we're all the sons of ONE man "Adam" (3alayhi Assalam).So, why debating about this thing when we're not even sure about our true identity. What matters to me is the here and now! I'm a muslim first of all, and an Algerian second of ( or at least that's what my ID says...) I care less for the rest...
  • Abu Daoud likes this

#22
^_^Chaouia^_^

^_^Chaouia^_^
  • Girls
  • 3,647 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tkout,Algeria - Edmonton, Alberta

Current mood: Woot!
the first inhabitants of north africa are amazighen,, though the spread of islam brought the arabic language, not forget what the koran says: "it is haram to hid what you are not. " why be someone you are not? one chooses ones religion. one does not choose ones roots! i say dna of north africa speaks for itself.. and it is time for those who lied and pushed north africa into an arab country to realize they went against what our koran says.. yes the majoitry are muslims so we should follow the real islam,, islam did not say you must speak arabic and be arabs, look at many countries who are muslims and they never forget their cultures or languages..
one really wants to know their true roots, many countries including algerie does a free dna test,, so the truth should be known i did mine, and proudly to say mine came back at 88% berber north african, 2% percent african dna (great grandmere father from south algerie) and 10% southern european (the roman empire inside algerie)
TamattuT nnegh machi ghir i waghrom
Tattali zang u yis wa Traffed' agastur."
The shawi woman isn't just for house work
She rides the horse and carries a sword.

#23
Celestial-Bird

Celestial-Bird
  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:algeria

Current mood: Artistic
algeria is berber, and all the arabs of algeria had been chased away from this land by fatimids !!

#24
Zakaria

Zakaria
  • Members
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:At University! Studyin' for the best and the worst, brother!

Current mood: Dreaming
No one can say " Algeria is that, Algeria is this".

First of all we have to understand that Algeria's history is long and extremely rich and complicated, as well as all Maghreb countries.

Second of all its history has shaped "regions", "areas" in Algeria which are very different and in the meanwhile very close.

Today, we tend to name these regions by their linguistic predominance.

→The Western part of Algeria, " al qita3 el wahrani", is a region where 99% of the population speak arabic.
→The center part of Algeria, around Algiers, is cosmopolitan. We have a majority of arabic speakers, and some berber speakers, Chenouwi, and some Kabylian.
→The Center-eastern part of algeria, the kabylian region, is made of a majority of kabylian speakers, there are too some arabic speakers, in Bejaia for instance.
→The eastern par of Algeria is divided into several region, the 9sentina area, where the majority of the pop. speak arabic, we got the chaouia area, where the population speak chaoui.

→And the LARGE band of the High Plains, which is inhabited by a majority of semi-nomadic bedouins (arabic) and some berbers.

→In the south it's mixed (Timimoun, Adrar, Tindouf, Wad souf), except for the Tassili aera inhabited by Touareg (tamasheq speakers).



Now, all those languages represent a richness for all Algerians, and shouldn't be a way to divide us but a way to unite people, sharing a common history.


It's interesting to say that even though in the "berber speaking areas" , the most spoken language is a berber dialect, the lingua franca has always been arabic, because it was the language of the business between the different areas of Algeria, and the language of the Religion (Islam ~al Qur'an). For instance it's practically impossible for a kabylian to talk to a chaoui. And a mzabi and a chaoui. And a mzabi and a tergui. Etc...



I PERSONALLY THINK this issue comes up a lot of time because there is an identity issue concerning the Kabylians, they are the only one feeling "persecuted" by the "Arab-islamist government".
Amusingly, the Mzab who are berber speaking people, do not have any issue of "arabization" because they deal themselves with the preservation of the Mzab culture, mzab language, mzab architecture.

We have as well an OVERmediatization of the "kabylian issue", even though it's more of an economical one than a cultural one. For instance on internet hundreds of blogs and website called "kabyles.com" use the CULTURAL and LINGUISTIC fact to justify POLITICAL AMBITIONS.




Everyone has the right to be what he wants to be. No one can force someone to be someone he doesn't want to be. I accept the fact that someone say "I'm berber", because it's his identity, and i want to discover his culture. But i do not accept to be told " you are not arab, all algerians are berbers, algeria is berber, not arab".
Nothing is unicolored, we need different colors to make Algeria beautiful.

Thank you.
  • Beebo, Apocalypse, Lilia and 3 others like this

Posted Image


TO COOK ME

QALB EL LOOZ!


#25
Fatony

Fatony

    A Legal Algerian

  • Super Moderators
  • 6,558 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UAE

Current mood: Cheerful Contributor

For instance it's practically impossible for a kabylian to talk to a chaoui. And a mzabi and a chaoui. And a mzabi and a tergui. Etc...


Amusingly, the Mzab who are berber speaking people, do not have any issue of "arabization" because they deal themselves with the preservation of the Mzab culture, mzab language, mzab architecture.




Merci Zakaria, very well put together. Still though, would you clarify some of the highlighted points above.
There are people with experience and people with opinions. Listen to one, smile at the other.
Posted Image

#26
Zakaria

Zakaria
  • Members
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:At University! Studyin' for the best and the worst, brother!

Current mood: Dreaming

Merci Zakaria, very well put together. Still though, would you clarify some of the highlighted points above.


Of course.

The first thing
is that it's practically impossible for a kabylian who only speaks kabylian, that means the berber dialect of the Kabylia region, to speak with a Chaoui or a Mzabi or a Tergui. Indeed, these dialects are VERY different from each other and developed in very different ways.

So for a chaoui to talk to a mzabi, he'd have to talk in another language, which was and is arabic.

Of course, there are some words that are similar, that's normal. But an inter-comprehension is almost impossible, without a lingua franca (i.e arabic)


The second thing is that the Mzab people do not share any political or cultural opinions such as "Secularism" or "Berberism" (in its extremism); Why is that?
They first of all are very jealous of their culture and tend to preserve it to the maximum. Their children learn arabic at the Madrassa, and they practice Islam in a very rigorous way.

They too preserve themselves the Mzab culture, they have Cheikhs that solve practically all the problems within the mzab community (which is ibadiya, by the way).
Being very religious, they do not have any issue with "arabization" because THEY teach arabic to their children from when they are 5 or 6, and still speak Tumzabt (berber mzab dialect) on a daily basis.
  • Beebo, Fatony, Omeymaa and 2 others like this

#27
Djijel77

Djijel77
  • Members
  • 2 posts
  • Gender:Male

Current mood:
This is an intresting topic. What we all know is that Algeria is
Arab-Berber in origin. We are a mixture of the two as are most of the Arabs a mixture.
What annoys me is the kabyle who disregard any Arab influence.

It is right that originally alg was berber but the arabisation ethnically, culturally. Linguistically began when The Arabs first came. Not only did we have the first Arab invaders we had the Arabs from banu hilall, sulayman, hassan who came in there thousands. Why do we find the kabyli only in the east, it was because the Arabs displaced them. We have the Arabs from Andalusia. Where did all these Arabs go when you state alg is only berber. Even the Berbers learnt and used Arabic.

To say boumediene made alg forget Berber is nonsense. How can a people who no what they are all of a sudden change their language and identity while they are aware of what they are. why do most alg accept they are arab, why do they allow arabic to be the official language. If theydid not see themselves as arab and the majority are berber as you state they would not accep this, and everyone knows alg history of revolting.Boumedine arabised alg to rid us of using French. The hypocrisy of the kabylies is they don't like people to say alg is Arab but it's not a problem to say we are only berber. And again we don't find the mzab having any issues such as the kabylies. It's simply political and a result of divide and rule from the days of coloniasm

#28
BylK

BylK
  • Members
  • 1,323 posts
  • Gender:Male

Current mood:

You can skip all the writing and just say you don't like kbayli people .. it'll be a lot easier

 

For the record, there's probably 10 million Kabyle people in Algeria and around the world .. and not all of them think the same way, so no need to generalize about a group that big with the ideologies of a minority ;)



#29
Djijel77

Djijel77
  • Members
  • 2 posts
  • Gender:Male

Current mood:
The problem is that the minority seem to speak for the majority

#30
BylK

BylK
  • Members
  • 1,323 posts
  • Gender:Male

Current mood:

People with extreme ideas will always make the most noise because of "said" ideas. It's the same with Islam. An Osama Bin Laden will get a million times more attention than any moderate Sheikh preaching religious harmony.

 

So do yourself a favour and don't jump to needless conclusions. Most Algerians couldn't careless about what you call them: Arab, Kbayli, Chaoui, Mzabi, etc. at the end we're all Algerian and we're all just trying to live and enjoy life. 

 

For the record, Algeria is a multi-ethnic country, like many other countries in the world. Our descendants might have come from different from places but at the end of the day we're Algerian, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't make sense to call it an Arabic country, just like it doesn't make sense to call it a Berber country. That's why it's officially called the People's Democratic Republic of Algeria, that's the only correct label you can put on it.


  • Beebo, Lilia and kim like this

#31
Abu Daoud

Abu Daoud
  • Members
  • 164 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Madinah, Saudi Arabia

Current mood: Cool
As a newcomer to Algeria I have been fascinated by the transitions it has gone through, and is still going through, as the direct result of throwing off an oppressor that tried to rule the Algerian people for 130 years. I have been to Malaysia as well and seen a similar struggle going on there. What most impresses me about Algeria is that they kept the Arabic language when France tried its best to destroy the use of this language during its colonial rule. Darjah was the tool that kept the people speaking the language of the Qur'an. So now in Algeria this dialect is loved by the people as a successful rebellion against the French. I don't care who made Arabic the national language or what the motivation was I agree that any Muslim country that has overthrown its oppressor should choose Arabic as the main language. Why this didn't happen in the forming of Pakistan and the loss of colonial rule in Southeast Asia is a mystery to me. We are Muslims and this is the single most important aspect of identification and Arabic is the language Allah chose to reveal the final and most important Message to all of mankind. I have jealousy because I can't read the Qur'an in its revealed language and I know that many Shaykes and Islamic scholars want to see Algeria return to Fusah as the main and most important language. I agree with this and would like to see English replace French as the second language of Algeria to help Algerians to work with the rest of the world and give Dawah to the many people crying out for Islam in the west.
Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burdens” Qur’an:4:85

#32
kim

kim
  • Members
  • 28 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Algeria

Current mood: Thinking

shaab aldjzaier muslimon       wa ila al3orobati yantasib

man kala 7ada 3an aslihi        aw kala mata fkad kadib

                                                             Emir Abd Alkader

 we are muslim and we belong to arabism (arabs) this is what I beleive in.



#33
Beebo

Beebo
  • Admin
  • 6,655 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Current mood: Busy Contributor

Algeria is very very hard to be categorized. Of all the Arab countries, Algeria is one of, if not the only one, which had so many religions, cultures and empires... we created our own identity which contains and encompasses all of those cultures along with out Berber origins.

 

Plus, in the end, Arab is not a race, it's a language and culture... all that matters in the end is that we're Muslim with a wealth of culture which of course relied heavily on our ancestral Berbers (kabyle, chaoui, ben mzab, touareg) to last and endure all those colonial occupiers throughout history.

 

Just my 2 cents


WgxUpZ6.png